2007 Democratic Mash-Up: on-line debate: on War & Peace

Barack Obama: Surge has not succeeded because it ignores political issues

A: Well, after hearing two days of testimony, let’s be clear on exactly what they said. That after putting an additional 30,000 troops in, far longer & more troops than the president had initially said, we have gone from a horrendous situation of violence in Iraq to the same intolerable levels of violence that we had back in June of 2006. So, essentially, after all this we’re back where we were 15 months ago. And what has not happened is any movement with respect to the sort of political accommodations among the various factions, the Shia, the Sunni, and Kurds that were the rationale for surge and that ultimately is going to be what stabilizes Iraq. So, I think it is fair to say that the president has simply tried to gain another six months to continue on the same course that he’s been on for several years now. It is a course that will not succeed. It is a course that is exacting an enormous toll on the American people & our troops.

Bill Richardson: The surge is not working; Petraeus just being team player

A: Both are distinguished public servants, but they’re basically serving an administration who has a failed policy. They’re being team players. So, I’m not convinced. In my judgment, the surge is not working. There’s only a political solution to this disastrous war. There is no military solution. In essence, what they’re talking about is that there’s going to be a withdrawal of 30,000 troops in a year [to return to 130,000 troops]. In my judgment, this war cannot end unless all our troops are out.

Q: You’re suggesting that by the end of the 2008, there should be no troops in Iraq?

A: If you really want to end this war, we have to take our troops out because our troops have become targets. If you leave them there, the Iraqis won’t be serious about starting the political reconciliation, and we would be unable to bring an all-Muslim peacekeeping force & a reconstruction process that would include Iran & Syria.

Bill Richardson: Iraqi situation is about to implode; withdraw all troops

A: Well, here’s my view. There’s already a civil war. There’s sectarian conflict. This Iraqi situation’s about to implode. If we withdraw all of our troops, then a possible rebuilding of Iraq can happen with a political reconciliation talks pushed by the United States. I would push it personally if I were president. A date and type agreement that would involve a partition, that would involve Iran and Syria being part of a reconciliation so that Iraq doesn’t implode. What brings everybody together, what unites all the region together, is that nobody wants thousands of Iraqi refugees. Nobody wants an implosion. I know the region. I was UN ambassador. I spent 80% of my time on Iraq.

Chris Dodd: Surge has not made us safer, more secure, or less vulnerable

A: Well, I think too much has been made of the assessment on the surge. Whether you agree with their assessment on the surge, that the violence is down, or you disagree with it, as many studies do, that’s really not the issue. The issue is, of course, fundamentally, are we safer, are we more secure, less vulnerable, today as a country? Is Iraq closer to becoming a nation-state or not? And that’s really the issue at hand here. And I think the conclusion I’ve reached, as well as many others have, is that despite all of these efforts over four and a half years, I think we’re less secure, less safe, more vulnerable today as a result of this policy, and that Iraq seems to be further removed from achieving that reconciliation that this space was supposed to be created by the surge.

Chris Dodd: Terminate funding for Iraq; compare Vietnam & persuade GOP

A: I don’t. I think we’ve come to the point where it’s time to call this for what it is. This is a civil war in the country. $10 billion a month, $2 billion every week, not to mention the cost of lives, what it’s cost the Iraqis themselves, the emergence of al-Qaida in the country, developing a sort of incubator for terrorism. In the coming days in the US Senate, I’ll offer that we terminate the funding.

Q: But do you think you can get enough political support among Republicans to make it veto-proof?

A: I doubt it at this point, but I’ll start anyway. I think we should have started it earlier here to build that case. And even many Republicans have serious doubts and reservations. [Bush’s] language is so eerily reminiscent of language I heard 40 years ago about showing more patience, wait a little longer, this may work down the road, that frankly, many of us who went through that are saying today that’s enough.

Dennis Kucinich: US army has civilian leadership; it’s not Patraeus’ decision

A: Well, are we forgetting something here? I mean, do we still have civilian leadership in the United States or have we torn that page out of our Constitution as well? The founders made it very clear that Congress under Article 1, Section 8 has the power of war. And Congress also has the power of the purse. Congress must tell the president now, “The war is over. Bring the troops home. Bring the equipment home. Force those mercenaries to come home.“ I mean, Congress has the power, and they can take action now. We can [vote to] not fund this war.

Q: Why hasn’t Congress done it so far?

A: Congress is afraid to take on this president. We engage in all of these phony debates about the war. It does not take another vote. It simply is for the leadership of the House to tell the president, ”We’re not going to give you any money. Start bringing those troops home now.“

Dennis Kucinich: Congress has the Constitutional power to end the war

A: First of all, you don’t need votes to end this war. The leadership has to tell the president, “No more money.” But here’s my strategy. It’s a strategy that I articulated over four years ago. The Congress tells the president, “No more money for the war,” and that we have to go out and end the war, end the occupation, have a plan to bring the troops home with a parallel process simultaneously, an international peace-keeping and security force that moves in as our troops leave. That way, Iraq’s stable. But in addition to that, stop the privatization of Iraq’s oil. This is a prescription to keep the war going. No partition of Iraq. We have to have a program for honest reconstruction, for a chance for reconciliation between the Shiites, the Sunnis, and the Kurds, and also for reparations to the Iraq people.

Dennis Kucinich: Assassination is extrajudicial killing; not even Osama

A: Our Constitution has been trashed by this administration. Former President Gerald Ford understood there are dangers when you use assassination as a tool. Assassination is really what’s called an extrajudicial killing. Look at the entire way this administration has changed our Constitution and what America’s values are. Extrajudicial killings are now licensed. Abu Ghraib, tortures--licensed. Guantanamo--people are not permitted to have a right to a trial. Habeas corpus has been trashed. You’re looking at the one person who really understands what this document, the Constitution, is all about. I want equal justice. I want Osama Bin Laden brought to justice. Now, if he resists in an attempt to arrest him, you know, whatever happens, happens. But I think that we as a country need to reinstate this Constitution. This is the basis of our strength.

Hillary Clinton: Patraeus report requires willing suspension of disbelief

A: Well, I think he became the spokesman for the president’s failed policy. The president will announce that he’s going to withdraw 30,000 troops by next summer. That would have happened anyway, because we have to start withdrawing the so-called surge troops and get back to the pre-surge number. Then, I’m afraid, based on what we’ve heard from the general, that’s where it’s going to sit under this president until he leaves office.

Q: You said yesterday it required a willing suspension of disbelief. Meaning that you questioned either his veracity or his judgment in what he said.

A: No, what I said was meant to convey my very strong feeling that no matter how flat the pancake, there’ always two sides. The problem is that what the administration’s report intended to do was to take anecdotal evidence and actually gild the lily once again, making it seem as though there had been much more progress than I think you can actually justify.

Joe Biden: Patraeus report is wrong strategy; draw down troops now

A: Absolutely not. I think it’s the wrong strategy. We should be drawing down troops now. We should be in the middle of the 2008, down to 30,000 to 40,000 troops with an end date of getting out of there based upon a political settlement where you set up a federal system there.

Q: What is it Petraeus believes in that you don’t?

A: I think Petraeus believes in what I believe in, that his troops will do whatever they’re asked. I think Petraeus doubts whether or not militarily he can reach a political solution. He’s given a military mission to try to stabilize as much of the country as he can. As a military man, he’s doing what he’s asked to do, but he knows it will not solve the problem. There is no military solution to Iraq that will allow us to leave without leaving chaos and a civil war behind.

John Edwards: Focus on political progress in Iraq

A: My view about it is that both the administration and Gen. Petraeus are not focused on what is the only important question, which is, has there been political progress in Iraq? Because unless and until there’s some political compromise between Sunni and Shia, there could not be stability in Iraq and the violence will continue. Without political progress, what’s the purpose of us being here? I mean, what is the purpose of all the lives being lost? What’s the purpose of now $500 billion and counting? But there’s absolutely no indication that the Sunni and Shia are any closer today than they have been in reaching a political solution. So I think the Congress needs to make him change course. If he vetoes a funding bill with the timetable for withdrawal, I think that they should submit another bill with a timetable for withdrawal and they should continue to do that until he’s forced to change course in Iraq.

John Edwards: Congress has a mandate to defund war to force Bush out

A: Congress has a mandate from the American people, and that mandate is not to provide funding to this president unless there’s a timetable for withdrawal in the bill. No timetable, no funding. Because I do not believe George Bush will ever change course unless or until he’s forced to change course. And right now, I think the troops in Iraq are stuck between a president who has no plan for success. He just wants more of the same. He wants more troops. He wants more time. He wants more money. He wants more war.

Q: Do you think Congress is worried about being charged with not providing funds for men and women who are at risk?

A: This is way beyond politics now. This is literally about life and death now. The American people are behind the Congress standing its ground against the president. The Congress needs to have the strength to do what’s right and force Bush to end this war.

Mike Gravel: Patraeus report is tragic charade; we all knew what he’d say

A: I think it’s a tragic charade where obviously one could predict what Petraeus was going to say three years ago. And then you get the president saying he’s going to follow what the dictates or recommendations of Gen. Petraeus, who is making recommendations that the White House wanted. This is a very tragic charade. While human lives are lost because of the inability of this government to have any sense of moral commitment.

Mike Gravel: Pull American troops out; it can be done in 120 days

Mike Gravel: Young men & women will die because of this nation’s mistake

A: No, because there’s no leadership in this country, and that’s the tragedy of it. There’s no leadership in Congress to speak of. And so we’re stuck playing out. I feel terrible over the young men and women and the Iraqis that will die and get their bodies blown up because of this nation’s mistake. This is all foretold the day we invaded Iraq without reason, without reason. It’s criminal!