CLINTON: You're the one who voted to deregulate swaps and derivatives in 2000, which contributed to the over-leveraging of Lehman Brothers, which was one of the culprits that brought down the economy. I'm not saying you did it for any kind of financial advantage. What we've got to do as Democrats is to be united to solve these problems.
SANDERS: I was on the House Financial Committee at that time. I heard the arguments coming from Democrats and Republicans -- Robert Rubin, Alan Greenspan -- about how great an idea it would be if we did away with Glass-Steagall and if we allowed investor banks and commercial banks and big insurance companies to merge. Go to YouTube today -- look up Greenspan -- it was the worst financial disaster since the Great Depression.
SANDERS: I would say that we do need a 21st century Glass-Steagall legislation. I would tell you also that when you have three out of the four largest banks in America today, significantly bigger than when we bailed them out because they were too big to fail, I think if Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, a good Republican by the way, what he would say is: Break them up; they are too powerful economically; they are too powerful politically. And that is what I believe and many economists believe. Time to break them up.
Hillary CLINTON: Absolutely. If Michigan won't do it, there have to be ways that we can begin to move, and then make them pay for it.
SANDERS: The Secretary described the situation appropriately. I did ask for the resignation of Governor Snyder because his irresponsibility was so outrageous. What we are talking about are children being poisoned. The idea that there has not been a dramatic response is beyond comprehension. When you have significant public health crisis, of course the federal government comes in. One wonders if this were a white suburban community what kind of response there would have been. Flint is a poor community. It is disproportionately African-American and minority. And what has happened there is absolutely unacceptable.
CLINTON: I do reserve it for particularly heinous crimes, like terrorism. I thought it was appropriate after a very thorough trial that Timothy McVeigh received the death penalty for blowing up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
SANDERS: It's hard to imagine how people can bomb and kill 168 people in Oklahoma City, but this is what I believe: #1, too many innocent people, including minorities, African Americans, have been executed when they were not guilty. We have to be very careful about making sure about that. But #2, of course there are barbaric acts out there. But, in a world of so much violence and killing, I just don't believe that government itself should be part of the killing. So, when somebody commits any of these terrible crimes that we have seen, you lock them up, and you toss away the key. They're never going to get out. But, I just don't want to see government be part of killing.
Q: Senator Sanders, you have been a critic of Secretary Clinton taking speaking fees and having donations from Wall Street. What about her defence?
SANDERS: Wall Street is perhaps the most powerful political force in this country. You have companies like Goldman Sachs, who paid a fine for $5 billion for defrauding investors. It was one of those companies whose illegal activity helped destroy our economy. Kid gets caught with marijuana, that kid has a police record. A Wall Street executive destroys the economy, no criminal record. That is what power is. That is what has to change.
CLINTON: I believe in affordable college, but I don't believe in free college, because every expert I have talked to says how will you control costs. I want to make sure middle class kids, not Donald Trump's kids, can afford college. The numbers don't add up, from what Senator Sanders has been proposing. That's why all the independent experts that have vetted both of us have concluded that it is not achievable. Let's go down a path where we tell people what we will do. A progressive is someone who makes progress. That's what I intend to do.
SANDERS: I believe that public colleges and universities should be tuition free. How do we pay for that? We pay for it by a tax on Wall Street speculation. The middle class bailed out Wall Street in their time of need. Now, it is Wall Street's time to help the middle class.
SANDERS: I did give a speech at Georgetown where I talked about democratic socialism and foreign policy. Maybe I shouldn't have combined the two in the same speech. While it is true that the secretary and I voted differently on the war in Iraq, what is important is that we learn the lesson of the war in Iraq. And that lesson is intrinsic to my foreign policy if elected president, is the United States cannot do it alone. We cannot be the policeman of the world. We are now spending more I believe than the next eight countries on defense. We have got to work in strong coalition with the major powers of the world and with those Muslim countries that are prepared to stand up and take on terrorism. So I would say that the key doctrine of the Sanders administration would be no, we cannot continue to do it alone; we need to work in coalition.
SANDERS: I concede that Secretary Clinton, who was secretary of State for four years, has more experience in foreign affairs. But experience is not the only point, judgment is. In terms of Iran and in terms of Saudi Arabia, of course they hate each other. That's no great secret. But John Kerry, who is I think doing a very good job, has tried to at least get these people in the room together because both of them are being threatened by ISIS.
CLINTON: Absolutely. We have to figure out how to deal with Iran as the principal state sponsor of terrorism in the world. They are destabilizing governments in the region. They continue to support Hezbollah and Hamas in Lebanon against Israel. If we were to normalize relations right now, we would remove one of the biggest pieces of leverage we have to try to influence and change Iranian behaviour. The president doesn't think we should. I certainly don't think we should. I believe we have to take this step by step to try to reign in Iranian aggression.
SANDERS: I never said that. I think we should move forward as quickly as we can. They are a sponsor of terrorism around the world and we have to address that. A number of years ago, people were saying, "normal relationship with Cuba, what a bad and silly idea." Well, change has come.
SANDERS: No I don't. I worry about Putin and his military adventurism in the Crimea, but I worry more about an isolated country. Russia lives in the world. China lives in the world. North Korea is a strange country because it is so isolated, and I do feel that a nation with nuclear weapons, they have got to be dealt with.
SANDERS: I do not believe in unfettered free trade. I believe in fair trade which works for the middle class and working families, not just large multinational corporations. I was on the picket line in opposition to NAFTA. We heard people tell us how many jobs would be created. I didn't believe that for a second because I understood what the function of NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, and the TPP is, it's to say to American workers, hey, you are now competing against people in Vietnam who make 56 cents an hour minimum wage. This is an area where the secretary and I have disagreements
SANDERS: If we remember where this country was seven years ago, 800,000 jobs lost monthly, $1.4 trillion dollar deficit, the financial system on the verge of collapse. I think that President Obama has done a fantastic job. Do I think President Obama is a progressive? Yes, but I disagree with him on issues including the trade agreement, but I think he has done an excellent job.
CLINTON: I'm grateful to have the support of many elected officials. I think it's because they've worked with me. They want me as their partner in the White House.
SANDERS: I am proud that we have over a million people who have contributed to our campaign. That our campaign is of the people, by the people, and for the people. Secretary Clinton does represent the establishment. I represent ordinary Americans. What being part of the establishment is, is, in the last quarter, having a super PAC that raised $15 million from Wall Street, that throughout one's life raised lot of money from the drug companies and other special interests. If we do not get a handle on money in politics and the degree to which big money controls the political process in this country, nobody is going to bring about the changes that is needed for the middle class and working families.
SANDERS: Let's talk about why, in the 1990s, Wall Street got deregulated. Did it have anything to do with the fact that Wall Street spent billions of dollars on lobbying and campaign contributions? Let's ask why it is that we pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. Let's talk about climate change. Do you think there's a reason why not one Republican has the guts to recognize that climate change is real? Do you think it has anything to do with the Koch brothers and ExxonMobil pouring huge amounts of money into the political system? There is a reason these people are putting huge amounts of money into our political system. And it is undermining American democracy and it is allowing Congress to represent wealthy campaign contributors and not working families.
SANDERS: I believe in public funding of elections. But this system is currently antiquated and nobody can become president on that system. Should we do a Super PAC, but I concluded that I don't represent billionaires. The alternative was to ask working families and the middle class to help in a transformational campaign. We got 3.5 million individual contributions.
CLINTON: Senator Sanders and I share big progressive goals. I've been fighting for universal healthcare for many years, and we're now on the path to achieving it. I don't want us to start over again. I want to build on the progress we've made; got from 90 percent coverage to 100 percent coverage. I don't want to rip away the security that people finally have; 18 million people now have healthcare; pre-existing conditions are no longer a barrier.
SANDERS: Let's deal with the comments that Secretary Clinton made. Every major country has managed to provide healthcare to all people and they are spending significantly less per capita than we are. I do not accept that the US can't do that. I do not accept that the US can't stand up to the rip-offs of the pharmaceutical industry which charge us the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs.
SANDERS: I am on the Health Education Labor Committee. That committee wrote the Affordable Care Act. The idea I would dismantle health care while we're waiting to pass a Medicare-for-all is not accurate. The Affordable Care Act has clearly, as Secretary Clinton said, done a lot of good things, but, what it has not done is dealt with the fact we have 29 million people today who have zero health insurance, we have even more who are underinsured with large deductibles and co-payments and prescription drug prices are off the wall. So I do believe that in the future, we should have health care for all.
SANDERS: Republicans give a lot of speeches about how much they love veterans. I work with the American Legion, the VFW, the DAV, the Vietnam Vets, and virtually every veterans organization to put together the most comprehensive piece of the veterans legislation in the modern history of America. Every Democrat voted for it; I got two Republicans. That is pathetic. So Republicans talk a good game about veterans, but when it came to put money on the line to protect our veterans, frankly, they were not there. Secretary Clinton is absolutely right, there are people, Koch brothers among others, who have a group called Concerned Veterans of America, funded by the Koch brothers, yes, there are people out there who want to privatize it. We've got to strengthen the V.A. We do not privatize the V.A.
SANDERS: I think President Obama had the right idea, and the bottom line is that of course there have to be conditions. But, of course it doesn't do us any good to not talk with our adversaries..
SANDERS: Republicans give a lot of speeches about how much they love veterans. But when it came to put money on the line [in my comprehensive veterans bill], to protect our veterans, frankly, they were not there. There are people, Koch brothers among others, who have a group called Concerned Veterans of America, who want to privatize it.
CLINTON: I'm absolutely against privatizing the V.A. And I am going do everything I can to build on the reforms that Senator Sanders and others in Congress have passed to try to fix what's wrong with the V.A. There are a lot of issues about wait times and services that have to be fixed because our veterans deserve nothing but the best. Yes, let's fix the V.A., but we will never let it be privatized, and that is a promise.
Q: Senator Sanders, have you established a list of what it means to be a progressive that is unrealistic?
SANDERS: Not at all. The reality is that we have one of lowest voter turnouts of any major country because people have given up on the political process. The reality is there are trillions of dollars going from the middle class to the top 1 percent. The reality is we have a corrupt campaign finance system which separates the people's needs from what Congress is doing. What we have to do is wage a political revolution where we demand the government represent us and not just campaign contributors.
SANDERS: We should not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. I am proud to be the only candidate who does not have a Super PAC, who's not raising huge sums of money from Wall Street and special interests. Never believed it would happen that we have raised 3.5 million individual contributions, averaging $27 dollars a piece. That is what the political revolution means.
SANDERS: It is true. I am the longest- serving independent in the history of the United States Congress. Vermont sent me to Washington as an independent. On the other hand, when I was in the House for 16 years, I caucused with the Democrats. In the Senate for nine years , I caucused with the Democrats. I do want to see major changes in the Democratic Party. I want to see working people and young people come into the party in a way that doesn't exist now. I want a 50-state strategy so the Democratic Party is not just the party of 25 states.
CLINTON: You know, the person who first put out the idea of a 50-state party strategy is former Governor Howard Dean, who is with us tonight.
CLINTON: We have to support Arab & Kurdish fighters. It is important to keep the Iraqi army on a path where they can take back territory. They're doing the fighting. We're doing the support and enabling. I want to continue, and that's what the president is doing.
SANDERS: Let me agree with much of what the secretary said, but where we differ is on the war in Iraq, which created barbaric organizations like ISIS. Not only did I vote against that war, I helped lead the opposition. It gives me no pleasure to tell you that much of what I feared would happen the day after Saddam Hussein was overthrown, in fact, did happen. I think our task is to make certain that our young men and women in the military do not get sucked into never-ending, perpetual warfare within the quagmire of Syria and Iraq. It must be Muslim troops on the ground that destroy ISIS, with the support of a coalition of major powers.
The above quotations are from MSNBC Democratic primary debate in New Hampshire.
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