A: It will be a doctrine of restoring America's leadership and moral authority through multilateral organizations, through attempts to come to agreements on issues ranging from global warming to stopping the proliferation of nuclear weapons and other dangerous weapons. It will be a doctrine that demonstrates that the United States is not afraid to cooperate; that through cooperation in our interdependent world, we actually can build a stronger country and a stronger world that will be more reflective of our values.
A: Unfortunately, the president, just as he was able to convince some of my colleagues here to vote for the war against Iraq, despite the fact there wasn't any real evidence, so he has been able to get some of my colleagues here--Senators Clinton, Obama and Edwards--to say of Iran "all options are on the table." My candidacy offers the American people someone for president who was right the first time.
A: [The NIE concludes that] in 2003, they stopped their nuclear program. This president is not trustworthy. He has undermined our security in the region. He has undermined our credibility in the world. He has made it more difficult to get cooperation from the rest of the world. He has caused oil to go up roughly $25 a barrel--a security premium--because of his threat of war. It is outrageous, intolerable, & it must stop.
A: Well, many of us believe that. Earlier this year, Senator Edwards told an audience in Israel that the nuclear threat from Iran was the greatest threat to our generation. Back in 2004, Senator Obama told the Chicago Tribune Editorial Board that he would even consider nukes to take out Iran's nuclear capacity. So there was a very broadly based belief that they were pursuing a nuclear weapon.
A: No, I don't think it does. I think you always leave open the military option in a situation where you've got to interpret between high confidence & moderate confidence The policy of this government should be that we don't take any options off the table, & we keep the pressure on them. And of course we don't want to use the military option. It would be dangerous; it would be risky. But I think it would be more dangerous and more risky if Iran did become a nuclear power. We should utilize sanctions. We should utilize as much pressure as we're capable of. But the fact that that military option is there, not taken off the table, ultimately increases the pressure.
A: The reality is the pressure works. The NIE said that, too. They said in 2003 Iran abandoned its nuclear program, they believe, because of all the pressure, all the threats, that they are susceptible to that. 2003 was the year in which we deposed Saddam Hussein. It was the year in which America showed massive military strength.
Q: But you're not saying deposing Saddam Hussein was a reason that Iran suspended its program?
A: No, you've got to look at what was going on in 2003. We had just won a big victory in Afghanistan, we had deposed Saddam Hussein. That's around the time Qadafi was putting up the white flag of surrender. That pressure helped to bring Iran to that position.
Q: Diplomatic pressure?
A: Well, pressure in general. And the idea that the military option is not taken off the table has got to add to that pressure.
A: The military option is always the ultimate last option, but I don't believe that it's "off the table." I would remind you that enrichment is a longer process. Weaponization can be done rather rapidly. Iran remains a nation dedicated to the extinction of the state of Israel. Iran continues to export the most lethal explosive devices into Iraq, killing Americans. They continue to be a state sponsor of terror in the case of Hamas and Hezbollah. And they continue to seek to exert influence throughout the entire region and the age-old ambition of Persian hegemony, including their increasing influence in the Basra area in southern Iraq. So I think they remain a significant threat and challenge, and so, no, I wouldn't take the option "off the table."
A: Well, only to the degree to which he sticks by the constitution. When President Bush said that he's a big believer in democracy, I'd have to wonder about suspending the constitution and declaring martial law. There are some concerns that I think we need to have about Pakistan. We need to make it very clear that, for the kind of money we've poured into Pakistan since September 11--some $10 billion--we expect a greater accountability for that money actually going to find, locate, and destroy terrorists.
Q: So what would you do differently than President Bush is doing right now?
A: Well, the main thing I would do is to make sure that we demand greater accountability, not only for the funding that we have put in, but we also get a greater level of cooperation.
A: Oh, it's very troublesome. Musharraf is not a wonderful leader. I think there is a smart path for America on this, understanding how volatile the situation is. First of all, I think we should reform the nature of our aid and use aid as our leverage tool. I mean, what we've been doing is essentially aiding Musharraf as opposed to aiding the Pakistani people. You know, with funding for F-16s, which does not help in the fight against terrorism, does not help with security for America. And we've also been approaching this unilaterally. We ought to have a multi-lateral approach to this problem. We shouldn't be doing this alone.
A: That would be my intent. I would make a pledge to do everything that I could to keep it from happening.
Q: How far are they away from having one?
A: Nobody knows. It's not an easy job. But they're not easy to find, either, in a place like Iran.
Q: You said an attack may backfire. What, in fact, would be the fallout from a US attack on Iran?
A: Well, sometimes you're faced with two very bad decisions, and those are two very bad decisions. What would happen if they sent a missile with a nuclear warhead and hit Israel? What would happen if they did the same to our people in the field with some kind of attacks by a nuclear weapon? What would happen if they held that whole region hostage in terms of oil?
Q: So where do you come down?
A: You can't answer that in advance. I mean, we're talking about a little ways down the road.
A: Well, he turned out to be right, and he is going to turn out to be wrong on Iran, as he has been wrong on others. The evidence is overwhelming that they are on the path to acquiring nuclear weapons. They are arming Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, as we speak. They have supported Hamas and other terrorist organizations. There is no question about that, no matter what Mr. ElBaradei says. And so, they are a state sponsor of terror. And that's agreed to by most people in the world. And that's my position. I have enough information, my own knowledge and background and information that they are a nation of state-sponsored terror.
Q: If it's clear that Iran is getting close to getting a nuclear weapon, would it be your policy to support pre-emption as a means of taking out or wiping out those facilities?Q: So you would be in favor [still]?A: Yes, yes.
Q: It would be?
A: Yes.
A: Sounds a little eager there, doesn't it?
Q: Well, my question: Do you believe the US should, in fact, be prepared to launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran to eliminate their nuclear capability?
A: Yes, we should be prepared to do that. I think in many respects it would be a sign of the failure of other policies. I don't think that that's something that we should have to do. We're not doing enough, I don't believe, to help [the people in Iran who are dissatisfied with the government], to communicate with them, to give them the means of communication to rhetorically say the things that I think we need to say, to give them moral support.
A: I wonder if Mohamed ElBaradei knew that the Syrians were, with the help of North Korea, building a facility that would be used for the construction of nuclear weapons. The facts are that if Iran acquires a nuclear weapon, the other countries in the region will acquire them as well. If they acquire a nuclear weapon, they have dedicated themselves to the extermination of the state of Israel. That's their statement, not mine. We need to get the Europeans, who they seem to be interested in joining us in meaningful sanctions, whether it be diplomatic trade, economic & others, and put enormous pressures on Iran. Iran cannot have nuclear weapons.
A: I have pledged that I will do everything I can to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb.
A: Yes, I would. I want to just say to you that, in my judgment, we have to use diplomacy. There is a redline. We cannot permit Iran to use nuclear weapons. What you do is Ahmedinejad--it's very difficult to deal with him. But there are moderate elements in Iraq. There are moderate clerics. There's students. There's a business community. We can achieve a compromise on the nuclear issue. In exchange for them having a nuclear fuel cycle, nuclear power, they don't develop nuclear weapons--carrot & sticks, diplomatic initiatives, economic incentives. The problem is we saber-rattle. This resolution in the Senate saber-rattles. It's critically important that we talk to North Korea, & to Syria, & that we talk to Iran. It's going to take skilled diplomacy. If we're going to resolve the situation in the Middle East, if we're going to get Iraq to stop Iran's helping terrorists, we have to engage them vigorously, potentially also with sanctions.
A: We are committed to Iran not having nuclear weapons. We have been governed by fear for the last 6 years. Bush has used the fear of terrorism to launch a war that should have never been authorized. We are seeing the same pattern now. It is very important for us to draw a clear line and say, "We are not going to be governed by fear. We will take threats seriously and take action to make sure that the US is secure."
A: What I will do is take all the responsible steps that can be taken to keep Iran from developing a nuclear weapon.
A: I am against a rush to war. I was the first person on this stage and one of the very first in the Congress to go to the floor of the Senate back in February & say Bush had no authority to take any military action in Iran. Secondly, I am not in favor of this rush for war, but I'm also not in favor of doing nothing. Iran is seeking nuclear weapons. And the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is in the forefront of that, as they are in the sponsorship of terrorism. So some may want a false choice between rushing to war, which is the way the Republicans sound--it's not even a question of whether, it's a question of when and what weapons to use--and doing nothing. I prefer vigorous diplomacy. And I happen to think economic sanctions are part of vigorous diplomacy. We used them with respect to North Korea. We used them with respect to Libya.
A: Here's a deeper question here, because not only the pledge you make, but this audience and others here make a determination which of us here have the experience, the background here to manage the situation. It's a critical question. The problem's not only the Middle East. What's going on in the Far East, and in Latin America and elsewhere. The more immediate problem is Pakistan, the one that needs to be addressed
A: I would pledge to keep us safe. This is complicated stuff. We talk about this in isolation. The Iranians may get 2.6 kilograms of highly-enriched uranium. But the Pakistanis have thousands of kilograms of highly-enriched uranium. If by attacking Iran to stop them from getting 2.6 kilograms of highly-enriched uranium, the government in Pakistan falls, who has missiles already deployed with nuclear weapons on them that can already reach Israel, already reach India, then that's a bad bargain. Presidents make wise decisions informed not by a vacuum in which they operate, by the situation they find themselves in the world. I will do all in my power to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but I will never take my eye off the ball. What is the greatest threat to the US: 2.6 kilograms of highly enriched uranium in Tehran or an out-of-control Pakistan? It's not close.
A: I would make the pledge. It would be through diplomacy. And what we're also talking about is not just Pakistan. We're talking about enriched uranium, a loose nuclear weapon, nuclear materials, fissionable material throughout the world. Even more of a threat than nuclear weapons is a loose nuclear weapons crossing the border. So what we need is an international agreement. But the key has to be diplomacy.
The Bush administration thinks that using military power is the way to solve the world's problems. Yet our experience in 1997, working multilaterally to contain Saadam, brought us together with other nations. We employed force in a strategic way, in collaboration with our allies, patrolling Iraq's skies and the Persian Gulf. Today, instead, having used force almost unilaterally to invade Iraq, and having conducted the war and reconstruction so badly, we are isolated. As a result, Iraq is in civil war.
In 1997, we sent a very clear message to Iraq that you have to back off, you have to start behaving, and there are going to be consequences unless you do. International cooperation worked better than unilateral action.
A: It's very serious. Waziristan, where I have visited, is clearly at least partially under the control of Taliban and Al Qaida military units who are launching attacks into Afghanistan. The Pakistani army has not been successful, and they made this unholy truce with them which has led to attacks into Afghanistan.
Q: So what happens to us if the country is destabilized?
A: It's a nuclear nation. I am convinced that there are some military people within Pakistan who are more Islamic than the present leadership--radicalized, I mean. What the US should be doing is encourage the reconciliation between Bhutto and Musharraf. I would hope that we would be able to defuse some of the situation. But it would have to be a very, very radical regime to take over for it to be a nuclear threat.
A: I think Iran would be a lot more of a paper tiger if we were more energy independent. You could go on into a lot of examples like that. This is a matter of national security. You've got to support all the alternatives. There's no magic bullet here--biofuels, nuclear power. We haven't licensed a nuclear power plant in 30 years. We haven't had a new refinery in 30 years. We're on hold. Hydroelectric power, solar power, wind power, conservation-- we have to support all of these things. The president has to treat this like putting a man on the moon.
Q: But where do you draw the line? Do you support drilling off the coast of Florida, California?
A: You don't draw the line anywhere. What you do is you work with people to try to advance all of these technologies. Long-term damage to our environment would be a mistake, that would be an overreaction. You have to make sound judgments, and you have to advance these new technologies.
A: No, no.
Q: What do you believe?
A: No, I didn't say that. I was just stating what was obvious, and that is that Saddam had had them prior. They used them against his own people, against the Kurds.
Q: Okay.
A: And of course, he had a nuclear reactor back in '81 when the Israelis bombed that. And the Iraqi Study Group reported that he had designs on reviving his nuclear program, which he had started once upon a time. So there's not question that he had had them in times past. And in my own estimation, there's no question that if left to his own devices, he and his son would still be running that place, attacking their neighbors and murdering their own people and developing a nuclear capability, especially in looking at what Iran is doing. And the whole place would be nuclearized.
A: Yes, [at a minimum, I'd consult Congress]. Under the War Powers Act there's always a conflict as to the exact applicability of when an engagement lasts for a particular period of time and when the president must come before Congress. I would say that in any close call, you should go to Congress, whether it's legally required or not, because you're going to need the American people, and Congress will help you. If they are voting for it or they support it, or leaders, especially in the opposite party, are convinced in looking at the evidence that this is the right thing to do, that will help you with the American people. In any conflict, we've got to have the strong support of the American people over a protracted period of time.
A: We're dealing of course with hypotheticals. If the situation is that it requires immediate action to ensure the security of the United States of America, that's what you take your oath to do when you're inaugurated as president of the United States. If it's a long series of build-ups, where the threat becomes greater and greater, of course you want to go to Congress; of course you want to get approval if this is an imminent threat to our security. So it obviously depends on the scenario, but I would, at minimum, consult with the leaders of Congress because there may become a time where you need the approval of Congress, and I believe that this is a possibility that is maybe closer to reality than we are discussing tonight.
ROMNEY: You sit down with your attorneys and tell you what you have to do.
HUNTER: It depends on one thing: the president does not need that if the target is fleeting.
PAUL: Absolutely. This idea of going & talking to attorneys totally baffles me. Why don't we just open up the Constitution & read it? You're not allowed to go to war without a declaration of war. Now, as far as fleeting enemies go, yes, if there's an imminent attack on us, we'd never had that happen in 220 years. The thought that the Iranians could pose an imminent attack on the US is preposterous. There's no way.
HUNTER: Not an imminent attack a fleeting target.
PAUL: This is just continual war propaganda, preparing this nation to go to war and spread this war, not only in Iraq but into Iran, unconstitutionally. It's a road to disaster if we don't read the Constitution once in a while.
A: You sit down with your attorneys and tell you what you have to do, but obviously, the president has to do what's in the best interest of the US to protect us against a potential threat. The president did that as he was planning on moving into Iraq and received the authorization of Congress.
Q: Did he need it?
A: You know, we're going to let the lawyers sort out what he needed to do and what he didn't need to do, but certainly what you want to do is to have the agreement of all the people in leadership of our government, as well as our friends around the world. But the key thing here is to make sure that we don't have to use military action against Iran. And that's why we're going to have to put a lot tougher sanctions on Iran, economic sanctions, credit sanctions, and treating Ahmadinejad like the rogue and the buffoon that he is.
A: It really depends on exigency of the circumstances and how legitimate it is that it really is an exigent circumstance. It's desirable. It's safer to go to Congress, get approval from Congress. If you're really dealing with exigent circumstance, then the president has to act in the best interests of the country.
A: It depends on one thing: the president does not need that if the target is fleeting. We live in this age of terrorists with high technology, and if you have a very narrow window to hit a target, if the president's going to have to take that on his shoulders, he's going to have to do it. He has the right to do that under the Constitution as the commander in chief of the military forces. If he has time, then certainly you want to go to Congress, as we did in Iraq, and get the approval of Congress. So it's a matter of whether or not the target is fleeting. And with respect to Iran, Iran is walking down the path to build a nuclear device. They've got now about a thousand centrifuges; they claim they've got 3,000. At some point, we may have to pre-empt that target. If we do, it should be done hopefully with allies but perhaps by the U.S. alone.
A: I would hope that they would use those profits to further the cause of alternate energy, nuclear power, a lot of other ways that we have to employ in order to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.
Q: Do you support drilling/exploration off the coasts of Florida and California? A: I wouldn't drill off the coast of Florida unless the people of Florida wanted to. And I wouldn't drill off the coast of California unless the people of California wanted to, and I wouldn't drill in the Grand Canyon unless the people in Arizona wanted to.
Q: But you wouldn't require the oil industry to use its profits to help pursue alternative energy?
A: I would not require them to. But I think that public pressure and a lot of other things, including a national security requirement that we reduce and eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.
: A president has to do whatever is necessary to protect the American people. If we think Iran is building nuclear capacity that could be used against us in any way, including selling some of the nuclear capacity to some other terrorist group, then yes, we have a right to do it. And I would do it in a heartbeat.
Q: Without going to Congress?
A: Well, if it's necessary to get it done because it's actionable right now, yes. If you have the time and the luxury of going to Congress, that's always better.
Q: And if Congress says no, what do you do?
A: You do what's best for the American people, and you suffer the consequences. What you never do is let the American people one day get hit with a nuclear device because you had politics going on in Washington instead of the protection of the American people first.
A: I'm the fellow that ended the draft. I'm the one that stopped the nuclear testing in the north Pacific. I'm the one that brought about the Alaska pipeline. I'm the one that released the Pentagon Papers and had to go to the Supreme Court because Richard Nixon was trying to throw me in jail. That's what I did 30 years ago. That was leadership then. And I was excoriated by the media at that point. I was a loose cannon. Well, right today, I've had the good fortune to live this long, and people look back and say, "My God, were you a courageous leader." Well, that's the leadership you'll get when I become president of the United States. Now, can the American people stand that kind of leadership? That remains to be seen.
A: Well, I know a little bit about this because I actually blocked a nuclear dump in Ohio. And I was one of the few up here who actually spoke against having a nuclear dump in Nevada. The truth of the matter is that nuclear power is very expensive. They never factored in the cost of storage, which continues forever. I want an emphasis on solar and wind, drive down this energy curve of hydrocarbon consumption.
A: Yes.
Q: Would you be in favor of developing more nuclear power here in the United States?
A: No.
Q: Period?
A: No. So that was less than 30 seconds.
A: No, but it would not be one of the options that I favor, unless, number one, the cost can get down for the construction and operation; number two, that we have a viable solution for the nuclear waste. I voted against Yucca Mountain. I've spoken out against Yucca Mountain. I think that recently the discovery--there's an earthquake fault going under the proposed site at Yucca Mountain--certainly validates my opposition. So there are a lot of very difficult questions. But we're going to have to look at the entire energy profile, in order to determine how we're going to move away from our dependence upon carbon-based fuels. And I will look at everything, but there are some tough questions you'd have to answer with respect to nuclear.
A: Not at all. The solution obviously is wind power. If we manufactured 5 million of these 2.5 megawatt windmills across the country, we could electrify the entire nation. I'm talking about our transportation system. Why don't we do that? This is technology off the shelf. That's why I kept saying, we can get off of gasoline in five years; we can get off of carbon in 10 years.
CLINTON: I'm not going to answer that because it's hypothetical. There would need to be a high standard of proof.
Q: Rudy Giuliani said, "Iran is not going to be allowed to build a nuclear power. If they get to a point where they're going to become a nuclear power, we will prevent them; we will set them back 8 to 10 years. That is not said as a threat; that should be said as a promise." Would you make that promise?
CLINTON: I will do everything I can to prevent Iran from becoming an nuclear power, including the use of diplomacy, the use of economic sanctions, opening up direct talks. We haven't even tried. That's what is so discouraging about this. We need a concerted, comprehensive strategy to deal with Iran. We haven't had it. We need it. And I will provide it.
CLINTON: I'm not going to answer that because it's hypothetical. There would need to be a high standard of proof.
Q: Rudy Giuliani said, "Iran is not going to be allowed to build a nuclear power. If they get to a point where they're going to become a nuclear power, we will prevent them; we will set them back 8 to 10 years. That is not said as a threat; that should be said as a promise." Would you make that promise?
CLINTON: I will do everything I can to prevent Iran from becoming an nuclear power, including the use of diplomacy, the use of economic sanctions, opening up direct talks. We haven't even tried. That's what is so discouraging about this. We need a concerted, comprehensive strategy to deal with Iran. We haven't had it. We need it. And I will provide it.
A: I don't think that we can take nuclear power off the table. What we have to make sure of is that we have the capacity to store waste properly and safely, and that we reduce whatever threats might come from terrorism. And if we can do that in a technologically sound way, then we should pursue it. If we can't, we should not. But there is no magic bullet on energy. We're going to have to look at all the various options.
A: Well, clearly your hypothetical suggests that everything we've done, up until this point and beyond, didn't work. And there's a lot we can do to keep that scenario from occurring. Before you actually take military action, what you do next is this: the president meets with leaders, Republican and Democrat, to make sure we're all on the same page. We want to make sure that Democrats sign up, that we're all part of this on a unified basis. Number two, you meet with our allies around the world and make sure we're on the same page on this, including China & Saudi Arabia. Now we take the military option off the table. When they see our military in our hand, a possible blockade or possible aerial strikes, they recognize we mean business. And that's going to make them think twice and, hopefully, abandon their folly. Because it is unacceptable to the world for us to have a nuclear Iran.
A: Well, one thing I would remember very clearly is the president doesn't have the authority to go to war. He goes to the Congress.
Q: So what do you do?
A: He goes to the Congress and finds out if there's any threat to our national security. And thinking back to the 1960s, when I was in the Air Force for five years, and there was a Cold War going on, and the Soviets had 40,000, and we stood them down, & we didn't have to have a nuclear confrontation, I would say that we should go very cautiously. We should be talking to Iran right now. We shouldn't be looking for the opportunity to attack them. They are at the present time, according to the IAEA, cooperating. I think that we ought to be talking about how to get along with some people that are deadly, like the Soviets and the Chinese and the many others. We don't have to resort to war every single time there is a confrontation.
A: One of the most important things we can do with Iran is to look at the Iranian people themselves. There is a great deal of dissent inside Iran. We certainly don't immediately, you know, use the button. We immediately don't go to war. But I also tell you that we cannot back away from this situation, and we cannot be threatened in that way. If it's required, action has to be taken & a president has to do that.
A: I think the problem with your question and scenario is that it is an all too likely scenario. What you're describing is much of the situation that we're facing today. And you have to also recognize that the founder of the current Iranian regime, Ayatollah Khomeini, said, if we destroy Israel, Allah will reward us. That was his stated policy. That is something that he stated.
I think you have to take the factual setting of what you put forward, take it to the American public and to the Congress, and ask for the authority to use military force for two purposes. Number one purpose is to go after the military forces being developed on the ground and trained on the ground in Iran to attack our people in Iraq, and number two, towards the nuclear weapons development program that the Iranians are working on.
A: I think that we have to look at Iran really in a different way than just the Cold War analysis. It's a different situation. Iran is right now the single biggest state sponsor of Islamic terrorism. America has to have a clear position. The position should be that Iran is not going to be allowed to go nuclear. Exactly when you would act and how you would act, it would be foolish for anyone running for president to answer a hypothetical like that. You want an element of surprise. You want the other side to understand that there's a step beyond which you will not go. Ronald Reagan won the Cold War without firing a shot. But it was because he pointed, like, a thousand missiles at Soviet cities. And he negotiated with them. I heard this confusion in the Democratic debate about when to talk and when not to talk. Well, Reagan talked to them with a thousand missiles pointed directly at their cities.
A: Well, I hate to answer a hypothetical. I think you don't want a president who's going to answer this question in 60 seconds, but here's a few considerations. First, you need to use precision systems--very accurate weapons, some of them with earth-penetrating capability. You need to be able to isolate, if you have to strike. If you get close to a 90% refinement of weapons-grade fuel, uranium, at that point, the danger is, if you don't eliminate it, then it could be passed to a terrorist group or to another nation, which at some point might make a nuclear device. The reaction force would be coming, obviously, from the Iraqi side. You would look, probably, at the pattern of what the Israelis did with the Osirak reactor that Saddam Hussein built back in the 1980s, when eight F-16s came over the horizon & took care of that problem. And some ground forces to do a battle damage assessment after a strike.
A: At the end of the day, we cannot allow Iran to have nuclear weapons. Now, I believe that we can do a lot of things. We can have a league of democracies to impose sanctions and to cut off many of the things and benefits that the Iranians are now getting from other democracies. I think it's clear that the United Nations Security Council will not act effectively with Russia and China behaving as they are. We need to work together with our allies, but at the end of the day, it's the United States that will make the final decision. In January of 1981, Ronald Reagan came to power and raised his hand as president of the United States of America. By more than coincidence, the Iranian hostages returned on that same day. I would employ some of his methods.
And the greatest danger for us in meeting this threat is the weakness of our intelligence services. We do not have any significant intelligence on the enemy's plans, networks, & troop strength.
Second, we must contain powers that could threaten us, including China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, & Pakistan--all of which have weapons of mass destruction.
The greatest threat of rogue dictatorships, like Iran or North Korea, is that they will sell weapons of mass destruction. While North Korea--with nuclear, chemical, & biological weapons--is a big threat to South Korea & Japan, it is a very distant threat to the US. But an Iran or a North Korea willing to sell nuclear and biological weapons to terrorists is very dangerous to America.
A: Musharraf is not a wonderful leader, but he provides some stability in Pakistan. And there is a great risk, if he's overthrown, about a radical government taking over. They have a nuclear weapon. They're in constant tension with India, which also has a nuclear weapon, over Kashmir. It's a dangerous, volatile situation. Q: But is Obama right or wrong?
A: As president, I would not talk about hypotheticals in nuclear weapons. I think that's not a healthy thing to do. I think what it does for the president is it effectively limits your options. And I do not want to limit my options, and I don't want to talk about hypothetical use of nuclear weapons. I would add that I think what the president should actually do, and what I would do as president, is to lead an international effort over time to eliminate nuclear weapons from the planet. That's the way to make the planet more secure.
Clinton on videotape:Q: What's the principal difference there?
"I would certainly take nuclear weapons off the table. And this administration has been very willing to talk about using nuclear weapons in a way we haven't seen since the dawn of the nuclear age. I think that's a terrible mistake."
CLINTON: I was asked specifically about the Bush-Cheney administration's policy to drum up support for military action against Iran. Combine that with their continuing effort to try to get what are called bunker-buster bombs, nuclear bombs that could penetrate into the earth to go after deeply buried nuclear sites. This was not a hypothetical, this was a brushback against this administration which has been reckless and provocative.
OBAMA: There's no difference [in our policies].
CLINTON: I was asked specifically about the Bush-Cheney administration's policy to drum up support for military action against Iran. Combine that with their continuing effort to try to get "bunker-buster" nuclear bombs that could penetrate into the earth to go after deeply buried nuclear sites. This was not a hypothetical, this was a brushback against this administration which has been reckless and provocative.
Q: Do you accept that distinction?
OBAMA: There was no difference. It is not hypothetical that Al Qaida has established base camps in the hills between Afghanistan and Pakistan. No military expert would advise that we use nuclear weapons to deal with them, but we do have to deal with that problem.
DODD: When I disagreed with my colleague from Illinois, was about the issue of whether or not a prepared speech should suggest a hypothetical situation and a hypothetical solution, that raised serious issues within Pakistan. The only person that separates us from a jihadist government in Pakistan with nuclear weapons is President Musharraf. And, therefore, I thought it was irresponsible to engage in that kind of a suggestion. That's dangerous. Words mean something in campaigns. You're not going to have time in Jan. 2009 to get ready for this job. You've got to be ready immediately for it and bringing back the experience over the years to deal with these issues, as I have.
OBAMA: We shouldn't have strategic ambiguity with the American people when it comes to describing how we're going to deal with the most serious national security issues that we face.
CLINTON: Iran was not a hypothetical, but a brushback against this administration which has been reckless and provocative.
OBAMA: It is not hypothetical that Al Qaida has established base camps in the hills between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
RICHARDSON: This talk about hypotheticals is what's gotten us in trouble. Here's what I would do on nuclear weapons: I wouldn't use nuclear weapons first. However, you can never take the military option off the table. This administration has used the military option preemption. It should be diplomacy first, negotiation, build international support for our goals, find ways that America can get allies in our fight against terrorism, against nuclear proliferation. We should have a treaty on fissionable material and loose nuclear weapons.
BIDEN: Look, I think he's a wonderful guy. It was about Pakistan we were talking about. The fact of the matter is, Pakistan is potentially the most dangerous country in the world. A significant minority of jihadists with nuclear weapons. We have no Pakistan policy; we have a Musharraf policy. That's a bad policy. The policy should be based upon a long-term relationship with Pakistan and stability. We should be encouraging free elections. There is an overwhelming majority of moderates in that country. They should have their day.
Q: But when you were asked, "Is he ready?" you said, "I think he can be ready, but right now I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training."
BIDEN: I think I stand by the statement.
OBAMA: If we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and we've exhausted all other options, we should take him out before he plans to kill another 3,000 Americans. I think that's common sense
EDWARDS: As president, I would not talk about hypotheticals in nuclear weapons. I think that effectively limits your options. What I would do as president, is to lead an international effort over time to eliminate nuclear weapons from the planet. That's the way to make the planet more secure.
GRAVEL: That's very good but, under the last 25 years, this nation has continued to expand its nuclear capability.
CLINTON: People running for president should not engage in hypotheticals. And it may well be that the strategy we have to pursue on the basis of actionable intelligence--but remember, we've had some real difficult experiences with actionable intelligence--might lead to a certain action. But I think it is a very big mistake to telegraph that and to destabilize the Musharraf regime, which is fighting for its life against the Islamic extremists who are in bed with al Qaeda and Taliban. And remember, Pakistan has nuclear weapons. The last thing we want is to have al Qaeda-like followers in charge of Pakistan and having access to nuclear weapons. So you can think big, but remember, you shouldn't always say everything you think if you're running for president, because it has consequences across the world.
At the same time, those individuals who predicted these disastrous things to happen if we leave Iraq are the same ones who said, "As soon as we go in, it will just be duck soup, it'll be over in three months and it won't cost us anything because the oil will pay for it."
The individuals who predict [an Iraq] disaster, predicted the domino theory, in Vietnam. I served five years in the military in the '60s. When we left there, it was tough, yes. But now we trade with Vietnam. We can achieve much more in peace than we can ever achieve in these needless, unconstitutional, undeclared wars.
A: Yes, the State Department--boy, when they start complaining about things I say, I feel a lot better about the things I say, I'll tell you right now. My task as president is primarily to do one thing--not to make sure everybody has health care or everybody's child is educated--my task is to do one thing: to protect and defend this country. And that means to deter--and I want to underline "deter"--any kind of aggression, especially the type we are threatened with by Al Qaida, which is nuclear attack. I read the national intelligence estimate. I see what they are planning. And I'm telling you right now that anybody that would suggest that we should take anything like this off the table in order to deter that kind of event in the United States isn't fit to be president.
I believe the reason why we won the Cold War is because of our advocacy and our dedication to the principles that all of us are created equal and endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights.
TANCREDO: Anybody that would suggest that we should take anything like this off the table in order to deter that kind of event in the United States isn't fit to be president. My task as president is primarily to protect and defend this country. And that means to deter any kind of aggression, especially the type we are threatened with by Al Qaida, which is nuclear attack.
THOMPSON: I sincerely believe that bombing religious artifacts and religious holy sites would do nothing but unify 1 billion Muslims against us. It makes no sense.
TANCREDO: After we take a hit?
THOMPSON: I think we've got to strengthen our military and we've got to recognize in this world right now we are fighting a holy war. It's a jihad. And until we recognize that and stand up to be Americans and for America, we're going to continue to lose.
A: I'm agnostic about nuclear power. Until we figure out what we're going to do with the waste and the cost, it's very hard to see nuclear as a part of our future. But that's where American technology comes in. Let's figure out what we're going to do about the waste and the cost if we think nuclear should be a part of the solution.
A: I actually think that we should explore nuclear power as part of the energy mix. There are no silver bullets to this issue. We have to develop solar. I have proposed drastically increasing fuel efficiency standards on cars, an aggressive cap on the amount of greenhouse gases that can be emitted. But we're going to have to try a series of different approaches.
A: Wind, solar, cellulose-based biofuels are the way we need to go. I do not favor nuclear power. We haven't built a nuclear power plant in decades in this country. There is a reason for that. The reason is it is extremely costly. It takes an enormous amount of time to get one planned, developed and built. And we still don't have a safe way to dispose of the nuclear waste. It is a huge problem for America over the long term. I also don't believe we should liquefy coal. The last thing we need is another carbon-based fuel in America. We need to find fuels that are in fact renewable, clean, and will allow us to address directly the question that has been raised, which is the issue of global warming, which I believe is a crisis.
With North Korea, we were able to push the North Koreans, possibly, to start reducing their nuclear threat, and we did bring home the remains of six American servicemen from the Korean War.
The situation is similar to the Middle East. This president broke Iraq. The next president needs to know how to use diplomacy to fix it. My world view is different from my colleagues. In my career, I've been able to get results not with harsh words but hard work. You talk to your adversaries. You listen. And with clarity comes cooperation. It's how I have approached foreign policy. It's how I have approached governing. And it's how I'll serve, hopefully, as your president.
RICHARDSON: The Republicans are stuck in the status quo on immigration, they want to expand torture, they want to keep these flawed policies in the Middle East and Iraq going. This is how I would deal with Iran. I would talk to them, but I would build an international coalition that would promote and push economic sanctions on them. Sanctions would work on Iran. What I would promote would be a tough negotiation with Iran. But the reality is that if we bring Iran and Syria, we could possibly lessen the instability in Iraq, and make some progress on the Middle East situation, on the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
GIULIANI: The problem [with] the Democrats is, they're in denial. That's why you hear things like you heard in the debate the other night that, you know, Iran really isn't dangerous, it's 10 years away from nuclear weapons. Iran is not 10 years away from nuclear weapons.A: Would you use tactical nuclear weapons if necessary to prevent Iran from having a nuclear bomb?
A: You know, I was just horrified at that Republican debate. They want to keep these flawed policies in the Middle East and Iraq going. I would talk to Iran, but I would build an international coalition that would promote and push economic sanctions on them. Sanctions would work on Iran. They are susceptible to disinvestment policy.
A: First of all, Iran might fall of its own weight if we give it a little help. We're not doing nearly enough to get communications in there and let those people communicate with one another. You know, if everybody in Iran had a computer, it'd be a free country today. There are riots and shootings of Iranian Guard that are seldom reported, but they're taking place all over the country nowadays. Their inflation is up; unemployment is up. You know, they have to import a lot of their basic staples.
Q: One refinery.
A: Yes, 40% of their gasoline [is imported]. And, you know, the radical religious approach to everything trumps sound economics. Eventually, that's going to catch up with them. So we've got to encourage that and use our intelligence resources, if they're sufficient, to do everything we can to help bring that about.
A: Yes. What people don't think enough about is what if we had not gone into Iraq. You know, after defying the UN 17 times, after corrupting the oil-for-food program and the UN itself, and defying the US, Saddam would have been there, the new king of the hill in that part of the world, with his murderous sons still putting people in human shredders, still a threat to his neighbors, still developing his plans for a nuclear capability.
I mean, he had those plans. He had the technical expertise. Whether he had them on one particular day or not is almost irrelevant. Especially today, looking at what Iran is doing, he certainly would have had his hands or been working assiduously toward getting the capability of nuclear weapons. And that's what we would have been faced with had we not done that. Going in there and deposing him was a good thing.
A: Yes, yes.
Q: It would be?
A: Yes.
If Saddam Hussein was still around today with his sons looking at Iran developing a nuclear capability, he undoubtedly would have reconstituted his nuclear capability. Things would be worse than what they are today.
McCain is correct to say that nuclear power does not emit greenhouse gases; in that respect, it is far more environmentally friendly than fossil fuel power plants. McCain neglects to mention, however, that nuclear power poses a different set of environmental worries. High-level nuclear waste--the sort produced as a byproduct of nuclear power generation--is potentially quite harmful. Some of the isotopes in spent nuclear fuel have half-lives as long as 24,000 years. At present, high-level nuclear waste is mostly stored in pools at nuclear power plants, a temporary solution. Fights have raged for years about the location of a permanent nuclear waste repository, but the NRC plans to open one in 2017 under Yucca Mountain in Nevada.
We need to use every means at our disposal, starting with serious and painful international sanctions, to prevent Iran's rulers from becoming the nuclear-armed blackmailers they want to be. Unfortunately, we are hearing demands that we abandon the people of the Middle East who have stood up to Islamo-fascism because they believed us when we said we would support them.
If we retreat precipitously, the price for that betrayal will be paid in blood & freedom by the Iranian people [and then others]. And America's word may never be trusted again. Right now, the pirate Ahmadinejad is clearly more confident about the outcome of the Global War on Terror than we are. That ought to give us pause.
GIULIANI: I think we have to accept the view that scientists have that there is global warming and that humans contribute to that. It's frustrating and really dangerous for us to see money going to our enemies because we have to buy oil from certain countries. We should be supporting all the alternatives. We need a project similar to putting a man on the moon.
ROMNEY: Rudy Giuliani is right in terms of an Apollo project to get us energy independent, and the effects of that on global warming are positive. It's a no-regrets policy. It's a great idea. [We need,] as a strategic imperative, energy independence for America. And it takes that Apollo project. It also takes biodiesel, biofuel, cellulosic ethanol, nuclear power, more drilling in ANWR. We have to be serious also about efficiency and that's going to allow us to become energy independent.
A: You don't take options off the table. All over the world we're seeing the same thing happening, and that is, people are testing the US. We have to make sure they understand that we're not arrogant. We have resolve. And we have the strength to protect our interests and to protect people who love liberty. For that to happen, we're going to have not just to attack each one of these problems one by one, but say, "How do we help move the world of Islam so that the moderate Muslims can reject the extreme?" And for that to happen, we're going to have to have a strong military and an effort to combine with our allies in such a way that we combine for an effort to help move Islam towards modernity. There is a war going on, and we need a broad response to make sure that these people have a different vision.
A: With two conditions. I think that you do have a dialogue with everybody, whether they're adversaries or friends. 1) They are moving deadly equipment across the border that is killing Americans in Iraq. We have license to utilize anything that we want to use--special operations, intelligence, whatever it takes--to stop that, & we don't give that up with these talks. 2) They've got about 1,000 centrifuges now working, enriching the materials that can make at some point a nuclear device. The US reserves the right to preempt that nuclear weapons program. We cannot allow them to have a nuclear device. With those two caveats, talk to your enemies.
Q: If it came down to a preemptive US strike against Iran's nuclear facility, if necessary would you authorize the use of tactical nuclear weapons?
A: I would authorize the use of tactical nuclear weapons if there was no other way to preempt those particular centrifuges.
A: Iran has to know very clearly that it is unacceptable to the US that they have nuclear power. I think it could be done with conventional weapons, but you can't rule out anything and you shouldn't take any option off the table. Iran is a nuclear threat because they are the biggest state sponsor of terrorism and they can hand nuclear materials to terrorists.
A: Sure, I think we all do. And they ought to be reinvesting it. And one of the areas that they ought to be involved in is nuclear power. Nuclear power is safe, nuclear power is green--& does not emit greenhouse gases. Nuclear power is used on Navy ships which have sailed around the world for 60 years without an accident. And of course we ought to be investing in alternate energy sources.
A: I believe it should be part of the mix. I think the future for Americans' energy independence, and there I believe we need an Apollo program. And I believe I'm the greenest governor in this country.
Q: What would you do with the nuclear waste?
A: Technology is the answer. I would not put it in Yucca Mountain, because when I was secretary it was obvious that it had environmental problems. It had water problems, there were issues relating to transporting that waste to Nevada. I don't believe there's another solution that has been advanced, and that is to store some of the waste at existing sites or in regional sites. I believe the answer is technology. What I would do is get our national laboratories to come up with a technological solution to dispose of this waste.
A: It's probably true. But I believe I had a good record as secretary of energy. We had significant advances in our nuclear proliferation initiatives with Russia and loose nuclear weapons.
Q: You said in 1999, "I can assure the American people that their nuclear secrets are now safe at the labs." Many said it just wasn't true.
A: There were problems, and there have been ongoing problems, too, with nuclear secrets at the national laboratories. But I took action. I increased funding for cybersecurity. I ordered polygraph tests. It was very unpopular.
Q: And you should not have said that?
A: I should not have said that. But I believe with the actions I took that we had secured significantly some of those secrets
GINGRICH: I partially agree with Sen. Dodd. I am not comfortable either with the current situation in Iraq, nor am I comfortable around the world with our extraordinarily limited use of statecraft. The North Koreans are cheating on their agreement on nuclear weapons. We still do no have control of Waziristan in northwest Pakistan, where Bin Laden's probably hiding. We have been told by the UN that the Iranians are now producing at least 1300 centrifuges, producing nuclear material, and that they almost certainly will have a nuclear weapon within a year. You look around the world, the forces of freedom are on retreat, the forces that are anti-freedom, pro-dictatorship, and, in some cases, purely evil are on offense. We need a dramatically expanded ability to use statecraft.
A: We're talking about it in such a theoretical fashion. You say that nuclear devices have gone off in the US, more are planned, and we're wondering about whether waterboarding would be a bad thing to do? I'm looking for "Jack Bauer" at that time, let me tell you [referring to the counterrorism agent in TV's "24", who uses any methods needed to achieve desired results]. We are the last best hope of Western civilization. And so all of the theories that go behind our activities subsequent to these nuclear attacks going off in the US, they go out the window because when we go under, Western civilization goes under. As president you should make sure 1) it doesn't happen, but 2), you better respond in a way that makes them fearful of you because otherwise you guarantee something like this will happen.
A: There are two kinds of Irans that we are going to have to deal with here: one headed by a gentleman who believes that he is going to be responsible for the coming of the 12th imam; and a guy with a bomb, that should put us in the position of saying that anything we can do to stop that is imperative. And if Israel is put in that position, and we need to be involved in order to protect both ourselves and the Israelis, then of course we respond in the appropriate fashion.
Q: If the prime minister asks you for help, you say you will say yes?
A: Well, there are conditions, of course, under which we would say yes. But if there is a threat to the existence of Israel, which is a potential threat to the existence of the United States, then you have to come to the aid of Israel.
A: Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. We all know that. Iran continues their efforts to build nuclear weapons. Iran is now exporting lethal IEDs & jihadists and suicide bombers into Iraq, killing American soldiers. The Iranians encouraged Hezbollah to attack Israel from Lebanon recent. Iran poses one of the greatest threats to the security of the world, and in the Middle East. We have to work together. If the Russians & the Chinese are not helpful to us, then we had better figure out a way to put additional pressures, encouraging democracy and freedom within Iran.
Q: What's your tripwire for a U.S. strike in Iran?
A: My greatest fear is the Iranians acquire a nuclear weapon and give it to a terrorist organization. And there is a real threat of them doing that. The trip wire is that if they acquire these weapons. But I want to emphasize, there's lots of additional efforts that can be made and must be made before we consider that option.
A: It certainly will. Altered nuclear transfer, I think, is perhaps the best source.
Q: Embryonic.
A: Altered nuclear transfer creates embryo-like cells that can be used for stem cell research. In my view, that's the most promising source. I have a deep concern about curing disease. I have a wife that has a serious disease that could be affected by stem cell research and others. But I will not create new embryos through cloning or through embryo farming, because that will be creating life for the purpose of destroying it.
Q: And you won't take any from these fertility clinics to use either?
A: It's fine for that to be allowed, to be legal. I won't use our government funds for that. Instead, I want our governments to be used on altered nuclear transfer.
We should not get to the edge of the cliff on this enrichment of uranium, and plutonium to be used for a nuclear weapon in Iran. The United States needs to move very quickly
A: It really depends on what our intelligence says. The use of military force against Iran would be very dangerous. It would be very provocative. The only thing worse would be Iran being a nuclear power. It's the worst nightmare of the Cold War, isn't it? The nuclear weapons in the hands of an irrational person, an irrational force. Ahmadinejad is clearly irrational. He has to understand it's not an option; he cannot have nuclear weapons. And he has to look at an American president and he has to see Ronald Reagan. Remember, they looked in Ronald Reagan's eyes, and in two minutes, they released the hostages.
A: I was correct about that. I also said at the time that I did not think he had weaponized his material, but he did have these stockpiles everywhere.
A: It turned out they didn't, but everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them. What he did with them, who knows?
Q: Gen. Zinni, when he heard the discussion about WMD that Saddam had, said, "I've never heard that" in any of the briefings he had as head of the Central Command. How could you as a US Senator be so wrong?
A: I wasn't wrong. When asked about aluminum tubes, I said they're for artillery. I don't believe they're for cascading.
Q: But you said Saddam was a threat.
A: He was a threat.
Q: In what way?
A: If Saddam was left unfettered, with sanctions lifted and billions in his coffers, then he had the ability to purchase a tactical nuclear weapon.
A: I would assess what our strategic interests are. What would I want from Russia?
GRAVEL: With respect to Iran, we've sanctioned them for 26 years. We scared the bejesus out of them when the president says, "They're evil." Well, you know something? These things don't work. They don't work. We need to recognize them. And you know something? Who is the greatest violator of the non-proliferation treaty The United States of America. We signed a pledge that we would begin to disarm, and we're not doing it. We're expanding our nukes. Who the hell are we going to nuke? Tell me, Barack. Barack, who do you want to nuke?
OBAMA: I'm not planning to nuke anybody right now, Mike, I promise.
GRAVEL: Good. Good. We're safe then, for a while.
OBAMA: I think it would be a profound mistake for us to initiate a war with Iran. But, have no doubt, Iran possessing nuclear weapons will be a major threat to us and to the region. They're in the process of developing it. And I don't think that's disputed by any expert. They are the largest state sponsor of terrorism, of Hezbollah and Hamas.
KUCINICH: It is disputed.
OBAMA: There is no contradiction between us taking seriously the need, as you do, to want to strengthen our alliances around the world--but I think it is important for us to also recognize that if we have nuclear proliferators around the world that potentially can place a nuclear weapon into the hands of terrorists, that is a profound security threat for America and one that we have to take seriously.
A: No, not at all. I think there had to be a maturation process. And I'm the one that started the nuclear critique in this country. And I'm also the one that brought about the Alaska pipeline by one vote in the Congress. So when you ask about the energy issues, let me just tell you....
We need to have a President in a position of embracing the world community. We're going to have to put away this approach of aggression. And I'm the only one in this race who not only opposed the war, but has consistently voted against funding the war which is the way the war keeps going, and I think because of that, I'll have the credibility in the international community to be able to build the bridges that will result in a new type of diplomacy.