KASICH: No, I'm not talking about an occupying force, I'm talking about a coalition that looks awfully like the coalition we had in the first Gulf War. It would involve our friends in the Middle East who want to contribute, also to our NATO allies, because we're not going to solve this problem with ISIS by just sitting back and delaying or dithering, which is what we've done.
KASICH: I've never heard it until right now. I have a lot of respect for Bill Bratton, but I will also tell you that Americans want to defend themselves. And that what we really need to focus on firearms right now is making sure that states use their databases to upload the people who have mental illnesses. And if we want to examine people who are on terrorist watch lists and not let them buy a gun, it's something that ought to be considered. It's the first I've ever heard of it.
KASICH: The Western ethic, what is it about? It's about life, it's about equality of women, it's about the freedom of religion. I'm not talking about going to church. I proposed some time ago a comprehensive plan to deal with ISIS, including boots on the ground, a coalition including Arabs, etc. But we have to also engage in the battle of ideas when we have many people looking for meaning in life somewhere other than Western civilization.
Q: One of the criticisms, though, is that you're making a clash of civilizations argument.
KASICH: We want to agree and work together with people who share the view that the path to murder does not get you to paradise. When we win the military battle, what comes next? What we've got to make sure of is that we stop the radicalization of people.
"We have not led, and when you don't lead, you create doubt in the minds of our friends, and also, it encourages our enemies," he said. He said he'd support a larger US military presence in the region. "The time has come to destroy ISIS as part of a coalition," Kasich said. "And if that means that US boots have to be on the ground, so be it," he said. "Because to allow this to linger, to put this off, to think that somehow this is going to go away is naive at best."
Kasich said joining Russia in the fight against ISIS doesn't mean the US should set aside fights with Moscow over its incursion in Ukraine and its intervention in favor of Syrian leader.
Kasich also sharply criticized President Barack Obama for what he said were years of inaction in the region that has allowed Assad to remain in power. "No more dickering, no more delaying, no more negotiations, he has to go," Kasich said of Assad. "The longer we look at the void that America has created in this world, the more chaos we have. The time has come for the United States to act."
Kasich said the zones would provide refuge for Syrians fleeing the 4-year-old civil war that has killed a quarter million people and displaced an estimated 4 million. He suggested regional assistance from Turkey, Jordan and the Kurds and said the administration should encourage European allies to help enforce any no-fly zones. "A no-fly zone can be very, very effective if it's enforced," he said.
A: I first of all think that we need to expand the voucher program so a veteran can get the health care they need as soon as they can possibly get it and should not be just limited to the VA hospitals. Secondly, my sense is you're going to have to decentralize the VA.
KASICH: Look, I have to be clear about it. I'm just trying to say that, in the course of a presidential campaign, I'm glad that I don't move so fast that I ignore people. And my views on our Hispanic friends across this country have been very positive. They are impactful in so many different ways. My position on immigration has been on that is intended to keep families together and to give them a good place in American society. I have great respect for [Latinos]. I think they are an important fabric of America.
KASICH: The head of the Hispanic Chamber said he appreciated my comments. And as you know, having followed me through this race, I've had a very reasonable position on immigration. I've always said that Hispanics are such a critical part of the fabric of the United States. They occupy jobs from top to bottom. They're God fearing and they're hard working. And if I need to clarify what I meant by that, I'm more than glad to do it. And that means that they hold very important positions. I've got a friend who's a doctor in oncology. I mean, that shows you how crazy it can get in this business. But to be clear, I believe that, from top to bottom, Hispanics play a critical role in America, not only today, but going forward.
KASICH: We need to respect our basic institutions, whether it's the presidency, teachers, our ministers, or our rabbis. We need to have great respect or the country begins to come undone. And so, I may not agree with the president, but I respect the office, and I respect the fact that he is the president of the United States.
Q: Would you ever have a problem with a Muslim becoming president?
KASICH: You know, I mean, that's such a hypothetical question. The answer is, at the end of the day, you've got to go through the rigors, and people will look at everything. But, for me, the most important thing about being president is you have leadership skills, you know what you're doing, and you can help fix this country and raise this country. Those are the qualifications that matter to me.
A: Yes there is.I think they (Senate Republicans) ought to go to the nuclear option in the United States Senate, that being that they should declare this a big constitutional issue and whether this agreement is put into effect or not, it ought to be decided by 51 votes, not by 60 votes or some filibuster. When it comes to this treaty, one which I so strongly oppose, I think the Republicans in the senate ought to say that we are not going to permit this to be blocked because of a filibuster.
KASICH: I think Planned Parenthood ought to be defunded, no question about it. We're doing everything we can in Ohio to figure out how to get that done. Although, if you're going to shut the government down, you're never going to get anything signed by the president because he's in total opposition. So you'd shut the government down, and then over time you'd have to open it back up again and you wouldn't have achieved much. So I think there other ways for Congress to deal with this. In this case, the President's made it clear that he's not going to sign it. Now I'm willing to fight all day long, but you've got to have a good prospect of being able to be successful because if you're not successful, you haven't achieved anything, you're going to have people shake their heads and wonder what your thinking was.
KASICH: We don't know what's going to happen in 18 months. I've been on the Defense Committee for 18 years, and you got to be careful not to paint red lines that you can't keep. In addition to that, I think we ought to hold Iran totally accountable for what they do, if they break any part of this deal, if they fund the radicals like Hamas and Hezbollah. In that kind of case, we've got to slap the sanctions back on. We would then have the high moral ground to talk to our allies and get them to go along with us. But in addition to that, if we get to the point where we think that Iran may be developing a nuclear [bomb], well then I think military action would be warranted. But let's wait until we get there and let's stay calm because that's one of the most important things we need to do when it comes to foreign affairs.
KASICH: I support that. I think it's important that we don't let anybody infiltrate who's part of a radical group. But America needs to be part of this solution. It's fundamentally a European problem, but I think there are some things we can do. Beyond taking [in] these people, I think we can provide some logistical support so people aren't losing their lives. And in addition, maybe some humanitarian aid.
Q: And in the long run?
KASICH: We need to look at this as an opportunity to try to draw closer to our European friends. Finally, I think it's important that Europe and Western civilizations begin to stand up for their fundamental values, their primarily Jewish and Christian values, so that when these folks come, we can have assimilation. So they don't change us, but maybe in some way we either change them or live peacefully with them and we have full integration.
KASICH: The 14th amendment makes it clear that when you're born here you become a citizen. So bringing up that issue, because we do need to build the fence to protect our border, have reasonable guest worker program so people can come in and out, that lawbreakers go to prison or are deported, and the rest of the people pay a fine, they wait and they can be legalized. I think that's something the American people would support and I think it's something that could pass Congress. I'm interested in getting things done, not just banging on the podium, being an ideologue and making statements.
KASICH: No, people were asking me about minimum wage and I said it's very important that we don't raise the minimum wage willy-nilly and we end up throwing out of work the most unskilled workers. I also said that if you're going to have a raising the minimum wage, it ought to be something that gets calculated between employers and labor. And I fundamentally believe it ought to be done at the state level.
KASICH: I think we absolutely have to spend more on defense. It's one of the essential purposes of the federal government. But I have served on defense for 18 years and being able to witness the waste, the duplication, the red tape, the slowdown, we don't want to spend money there that goes in the bureaucracy and delay that could go into building a stronger defense. There's no inconsistency there: reform the Pentagon, strengthen the military. That's why I call myself the cheap hawk.
KASICH: No, I don't agree with him. I think, you know, the court has spoken. I believe in traditional marriage, but the court has ruled. Now, I respect the fact that this lady doesn't agree, but she's also a government employee. She's not running a church. I wouldn't force this on a church, but in terms of her responsibility I think she has to comply. I don't like the fact that she's sitting in a jail, that's just absurd as well. But I think she should follow the law.
KASICH: Well, I think maybe this is an opportunity for the United States and the western world to work together to solve what is an unbelievable crisis. And I think we do have a responsibility in terms of taking some more folks in, making sure they assimilate, and at the same time helping people to actually be safe as they move. That's logistical support. But this is fundamentally an issue that Europe has to come to grips with. We can provide some humanitarian aid to them. But the bottom line is we should have been supporting the Syrian rebels years ago. I pitched Boehner and McCain on it, the administration ignored it. This thing could be over by now. But when the United States draws red lines and walks away without a solid policy, we see human tragedy unfolding right before our eyes.
A: Right.
Q: Should there be exceptions?
A: Yes, I have always been for exceptions.
Q: Which ones?
A: For rape, incest, and life of the mother.
Q: Two of your competitors, Marco Rubio and Scott Walker, said they're for no exceptions. Does that make you more electable?
A: No matter what your position is on the issue, you have to have respect for people. And I do. And it's an issue that people have a right to have a different point of view.
Q: Do you think that they would be electable against a Democrat, if they support no exceptions?
A: Well, I think that it's an important issue, but I think there's many other issues that are really critical, early childhood, infant mortality, the environment, education. I think we focus too much on just one issue.
Q: But it's one that matters in a lot of people's lives.
A: To a lot of people on both sides.
Q: Why are exceptions part of your belief?
A: Because I think it's reasonable.
A: Well, it relates to things like early childhood education, poor kids, people who are in prison, giving them a chance to get their lives back if they want to earn their way there. But let me say that I knew that, number one, we would save money by taking people out of prison and letting them get a job where they could become a taxpayer. To me conservatism is giving everybody a chance to be able to be successful.
A: I would be working to get other countries to jump in and join us. I don't want to go alone. Let me tell you what I would do. Firstly, I would have supported the rebels in Syria that were in there to topple Assad. Secondly, I would have a coalition of other countries, including us, on the ground beginning to degrade and destroy ISIS, because, as you begin to do it, that whole caliphate beings to fall apart.
A: Well, we should have had a base left in Iraq, for sure.
Q: But do you think that President George W. Bush, who launched the attack initially on Iraq, bears some responsibility for ISIS now?
A: I would have never committed ourselves to Iraq. And, as you can see, ultimately, it's going to end up being divided into three parts. I think the Kurds are great allies of ours. And we have got to very conscious of some of the things that they need and balance that off against the Turks, because that's become an issue over there. But all the religions of the world ought to stand up and say, "you blow up innocent men, women, and children, and you think you're going to paradise, there's something wrong with you, you're nuts, and if we catch you, we're going to throw you into prison, maybe for the rest of your life."
A: We came out with a unanimous recommendation to create a statewide policy on the use of deadly force, and examination and recruiting and hiring practices [amongst police forces]. And now it is really critical that the community understands the challenges of police and that police can understand what is going on inside the community.
A: First of all, we ought to finish the fence. The 11 million who are here, we ought to find out who they are. If they've been law abiding over a period of time they ought to be legalized and ought to be able to stay here. If you have violated the law, we're going to ship you out. Once that fence gets built, we should make it clear, anybody who sneaks in, you're going back home. And in addition we need a guest worker program so that people can come in and work and be able to go back to support their family.
Q: Would ending birthright citizenship be part of this larger immigration approach?
A: I don't think we need to go there.
KASICH: That was an assault weapon ban. I'm a Second Amendment advocate. I don't believe the government should be taking guns from people. I think people have a right to be armed. It's about keeping the Second Amendment and it's allowing legitimate gun owners to be able to do what they want, which is exercise their constitutional right. So people don't need to worry about that.
Q: Do you regret your vote for the assault weapons ban in '94?
KASICH: No, when I look at it now, it was superfluous. We were adding a law that had no impact. And I don't think that's ever smart to do.
A: I'm opposed to ObamaCare and I've been clear on that. In addition to that, instead of locking people up in prison who have mental health [problems], we give them treatment and keep them out and that saves us money. Instead of putting the drug addicted person back in prison and having them be released and back in prison, we treat them and we have a 10% recidivism rate. And for the working poor, instead of us all paying uncompensated care when they go in there and they don't have insurance, they now have health care so they're not sicker and more expensive. Now, we not only save money by doing this, and morally, we're letting people get up on their feet and have a better life. In regard to Medicaid, however, we bring our money back to treat people here in Ohio. I would [prefer to] block grant it, empowering states to deal with those who are sick and poor, so it's not a one-size-fits-all mentality.
KASICH: First of all, it's not about being a Christian--the Jewish and Christian principles of this country say basically the same thing. Look, I'm a public official, but I'm also a leader in terms of how this country ought to move. My sense is that it is important that we do not ignore the poor, the widowed, the disabled. I just think that's the way America is. And I think there's a moral aspect to it. In my state, there's not only a moral aspect where some people's lives have been saved because of what we've done, but it also saves us money in the long run.
KASICH: Well, I think radical Islam really is number one. And, you know, I've said all along we should have a coalition. We should be there, including boots on the ground. And we need to degrade and destroy ISIS. Number one.
Q: You would be sending more troops?
KASICH: Well, I would have them in a role where they're going to be on the ground fighting. I mean, you've got the air power, but you can't solve anything just with air power. But I would be part of a coalition and I would take them down and begin to destroy the caliphate.
KASICH: What I support is a guest worker program expanded so people can come in and then go home. Seal the border. There are some interest groups that don't want the border to be sealed.
Q: What does "seal the border" mean, though?
KASICH: You do it with fencing and you do it with technology, drones and sensors. And, you know, Duncan Hunter in San Diego has significantly reduced the number of people coming across the border because of his initiatives on fencing. So do as best you can there. I've been told by grownups, real experts, that most of this can be done effectively. Guest worker program, the 12 million that are here, if they violated the law, they're going to have to pay a fine and pay a penalty for the fact that they violated the law. But, you know, if they're part of our culture now and society, and they're doing fine, they're hardworking, they're just like all of us, then I think they can stay.
"I do believe in traditional marriage, but the court has ruled and it's time to move on," the Ohio governor said. Kasich was one of the original defendants in Obergefell v. Hodges, the case that began in Ohio in July 2013 when James Obergefell and his partner, John Arthur James, filed a lawsuit against the state because of its refusal to recognize same-sex marriage on death certificates. But he's taking a much more cautious approach than many of his GOP presidential rivals in the wake of the court's ruling. "I think everybody needs to take a deep breath to see how this evolves," Kasich said. "But I know this. Religious institutions, religious entities--you know, like the Catholic church--they need to be honored as well. I think there's an ability to strike a balance."
KASICH: I don't agree with that. Look, we're just looking for the drugs that we need to administer it. And in this debate, sometimes we forget the victims. Listen, I review all these cases. And to some people I've said we will let them stay for life in prison if I wasn't certain of who did what. But I've had these grieving families come to see me. And look, it's about justice. It isn't about revenge, it's about justice. And I support the death penalty and will continue to do that, because a lot of times, families want closure when they see justice done.
Q: What about religious objection to the death penalty?
KASICH: I think it's consistent with my Catholic faith. If I didn't, I'd have to exorcise it. But look, at the end of the day, I'm also a secular official, right? I'm also the governor. Now, it doesn't mean that my faith doesn't influence me. But I have a job to do as administrator of the state of Ohio.
KASICH: Well, regardless of whether the verdict was right or wrong, the people of Cleveland should be proud of themselves for being a model of non-violent protest. When there are large numbers of people who do not think the system works for them, we have to respond to it. That's why I created a task force on integration police into the community. And there were two recommendations up front: a policy regarding the use of deadly force, statewide in Ohio, and secondly research into the recruiting and enrollment of minority police officers. We've got to make sure that people in these communities know that there's an opportunity for them that there is hope, that people and authority are listening, that there will be solid responses.
A: Well, I don't believe the drone program ought to be run out of the CIA. The CIA is an intelligence-gathering operation. The drone program should be operated exclusively out of the Pentagon. You know, the Air Force has the capability of doing extensive targeting. You don't have those capabilities in the CIA. And I have talked to former CIA people who have told me this.
A: Knowing what I know now, no. Reagan used to say trust and verify. In regard to Iran, it should be verify, verify, verify, without the trust, because I don't trust them.
Q: And you don't think the administration has done that or tried to do that?
A: I think they have fallen in love with this deal. I think a lot of it is about a legacy. I do not like this agreement, what I have read so far.
A: You know, look, that's past history. Wall Street is necessary. Because it helps move the financial operations of America forward. But I'll tell you the problem with Wall Street. It's too much about, "I've got to make money." There's too much greed. If all you seek is money without values, then you're bankrupt. And so what I think is our financial community has to realize that there's a moral underpinning. Free enterprise and free markets are exactly what we ought to have in America. But there has to be a conscience that underlays it.
Q: Anything positive to say about Lehman?
A: The greatest thing I got from Lehman is I spent a lot of time in the Silicon Valley. And when I went out there, I could see the future. And that's what we have to be about in America, bringing ourselves together, innovating, you know, in terms of innovation and vision.
In 1989, Kasich landed on the Budget Committee, where he let his inner deficit hawk soar. In 1993, Kasich became Chair and the key player in the bloody budget battles with President Clinton. A couple of government shutdowns later, Kasich emerged as chief architect of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997.
Bottom line, for now, he says, "my energy and my passion and my fight is in two things: Ohio and my balanced-budget cause."
Speaking of which: When I suggest that crisscrossing the country in the hopes of convincing 34 states to call a constitutional convention on balancing the budget seems a bit quixotic, he appears almost amused. "Is it? Am I Don Quixote? I've been that way before!" He flashes me a smile. "And you know what? It seems to work out."
But then things took a turn for the weird. The pugnacious Kasich conceded defeat. Graciously. On election night, he issued an official statement noting that "the people of Ohio have spoken, and I respect their decision." And then, he let the issue go. For some Kasich-watchers, this was when the governor began to moderate.
Kasich's impatience is a visible force: He is forever fidgeting in his chair, rocking on his toes, waving his hands, jumping into conversations, and generally refusing to remain at rest.
His leadership style is equally restless. Staffers say he hurtles from one mission to the next without taking a breath. "There's always the next thing," says his press secretary. "You finish something monumental, then everybody just kind of forgets about it and moves on to the next giant thing."
In so many ways, then, Kasich is the stuff of conservative dreams. But the governor is also prone to jabbing his finger in the eye of his base with moves like raising infrastructure spending, increasing tax breaks for low-income residents, championing a fracking tax on oil and gas producers, pushing to hike cigarette taxes, making education funding more redistributive, or commuting death sentences. And of course there's the granddaddy of betrayals: Medicaid expansion, which Kasich rammed through over opposition from Ohio's Republican-controlled Legislature.
For those in need of a New Testament refresher: In Matthew 25, Jesus admonishes his followers to aid the less fortunate. Kasich has cited the passage repeatedly of late in defending his ObamaCare-fueled Medicaid expansion--an act of Republican apostasy that prompted widespread dismay among his party brethren.
He gets back on track: "With this whole spiritual element, let's get away from the judgment side of it. I think it's actually what the Pope's trying to do. The Pope's saying, 'Why don't we get into the feeding the hungry and clothing the naked and helping the imprisoned and helping the lonely? That's what we're commanded to do. To me, this is a gift that I've been able to feel this way."
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The above quotations are from Sunday Political Talk Show interviews during 2015, interviewing presidential hopefuls for 2016.
Click here for main summary page. Click here for a profile of John Kasich. Click here for John Kasich on all issues.
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